Friday, May 29, 2009

Nadi Astrology (Jyosium)- Busted!

Nadi Astrology - have you heard of it?
The theory is that the Ancient Saints/Rishis through their power of mediation predicted the life of every one in India. This information is documented in Palm Leaves. A group of families living in a place called Vaitheswaran Koil in Tamilnadu have taken possession of these palm leaves, and they are secretly guarding this for the last 1000 years or so. For a small fee they would retrieve valuable information about you from their palm leaves collection!

The buid up from a Beleiver

I learned about this from one of my relatives who was a great follower of this. He told me that a Nadi Astrologer took his finger prints, and based on that he retrieved a bunch of palm leaves which provided a detailed description of his life. My relative showed me a little notebook where they have written his life history. My relative’s name, his age, his wife’s name, number of children, his father’s name etc were accurately written in that note book. The relative swore that he had never been to Vaitheswaran koil in his life and never met any one there. Still they managed to provide so much information about him.

My relative also told me that they gave him information about his Previous Birth. (How on earth would you verify that?) Apparently in his previous life, my relative had been a king (good for him!). But he seemed to have killed a child by poisoning the milk, and the sin has followed him to this present life. To clear his criminal history, he had to perform some special pujas. Without going into the details of the Pujas, it is suffice to say he spend around Rs15,000 towards remedy. God seemed to have amended his criminal records and every thing in life is Jolly good from that point.

I was curious about all this and wanted to get to the bottom of this. So I decided to find out myself. I asked my relative to take us to Vaitheswaran Koil.

The journey and the experience

We landed in Vaitheswaran koil. My relative led us through the narrow street filled with Nadi experts (this is the Wall Street of Vaitheswaran Koil). He took us to a Nadi Astrology center which was a traditional brick house. My relative spoke with the some one inside and we were told to pay the fee and wait outside in the veranda. After about 15 minutes wait, we were allotted a Nadi Reader. My brother aggreed to be their client, I decided to observe the proceedings.

The Nadi Reader initially took an impression of my brother’s thumb, and then disappeared into the back of the house. A few minutes later, he came back with a bunch of dusty palm leaves. He started reading (or blabbering) some thing in what he called as “ancient Tamil”. Even though I am a Tamilian, his so called “ancient Tamil” did not make any sense to me. He then asked a series of questions. My brother was supposed to answer “yes” or “no” to the questions. Apparently the reader was doing this to make sure he picks up the right bunch of palm leaves.

After a series of questions, he told us that it was not the right palm leaves bunch. He then went inside and took out another bunch of palm leaves and started asking questions again (Like: “are you named after any god?”, “your father has more than one child?” etc)

The cyclic sequence: Questioning>> disappearing to the back>> picking up a new bunch of palm leaf>> Questioning - went on for about one hour. After an hour the reader disappeared inside for about 15 minutes and came up with a bunch of palm leaves. He told us that he got the right palm leaf bunch. He started blabbering some thing again in what he called “ancient Tamil” . This time instead of asking questions, he told us the answers- my brother’s name, my father’s name etc.

I was not surprised this time, because by now I have figured out how exactly he managed to pull this trick.

The Logic
It is a variation of COLD READING. I will try to explain in other ways..

Have you ever played a guessing game? . It works as follows:

You will be part of a team consisting of 3 or 4 people. You will go to a person in an other team who will whisper something in your ear. You go and stand in front of your team, and your team mates will then ask a series of questions. You can only answer “yes” or “no”, and you cannot speak or give any other clue. Your team mates should find out what was whispered in your ears based on your “yes” or “no” answer.

If you have played this game, you will understand how the Nadi Reader predicted things about my brother. It is a matter of asking questions, and based on the response, you ask further questions to narrow down the answers.

Observations
During the initial stages, the Nadi Astrologer failed to get my Brother’s actual name (his actual or legal name is “Dilip Kumar” which is a north Indian name). Then some thing interesting happened, my mother started to associate the Astrologer’s questions to my brother’s spiritual name which is “Vaithyanathan”. After my mother started guiding the Nadi reader towards my brother’s spiritual name (without knowing of course), subconsciously both my mother and brother were cooperating with the Reader to make this work. To explain, look at the following questions and corresponding response:

“Are you named after a god?”
“Yes”
“Are you named after Vishnu”
“No”
“Are you named after Shiva”
“Yes”
“Does your name start with any of the following sounds: “ Ka,se, va (க, ச, வா )
“Yes”

If the above questions were associated with my brother’s legal name, then the answer to all the above questions should be “no”. But to make this work (subconsciously), my family was leading the Nadi Reader towards the spiritual name by answering yes.

The Nadi reader was not asking the questions in the above order to camouflage his technique. So he jumbles his questions around. For example his first question would be related to my brother’s name, the second question would be related to my father’s name, the third question will be related to my mother, and the fifth question will be related to my brother name, and so on.

I reconstructed the whole sequence of questions & answers later on and demonstrated how the Nadi reader established the facts about my brother. I also explained to my family how they volunteered more information in addition to the simple “yes” or “no’ during the process.

The Nadi reader regularly disappears from the room, during which I think he is passing on his clues to some one else. His inside accomplish deciphers the information and provides fresh set of questions, and then they narrow down the clues as they go further. Once they are satisfied that they have learned sufficient information, they compile it in one go to give you this magnificent effect - that the palm leaf bunch has every thing about you!

The Nadi reader showed us the palm leaf bunch that apparently contained my brother’s personal information. In the palm leaf, most of the writings did not make sense (did not resemble any thing similar to the Tamil alphabets that we read in school) except for my brother’s name which was clearly readable. For believers it gives some sense of authenticity (“hey it has got my name so that should be the right “).For a rational person it doesn’t make any sense. Why would the ancient palm leaf writers write the person's Name in modern Tamil but write the rest of the information in the so called ‘ancient Tamil”? .

I realised it would be a hell of a task for this guy to crack unusual names. If you have a name like “Jose Marina de Gonzalis” or “Marvin Attapattu” there is no chance in hell that you would get a Nadi Astrology prediction. I watched the Nadi Astrologer go through the same process with an other man (who looked like North Indian). After one hour of questioning, the Nadi Reader claimed that he couldn’t get the right palm leaf bunch. I figured out that they have failed to crack him. In the end the Nadi Reader gave up and told his customer that the palm leaves will only appear when the time is right!

Let me draw attention to the beginning of this article.
My relative told me this:
  • The Nadi Reader predicted his past based on reading from palm leaves
  • The palm leaves were retrieved from a simple thumb impression.
He did not tell me that we would go through one hour of rigorous questioning. Most of the people who had been to this Nadi Astrolgoy never mention the questioning process. When I ask them specifically about the questions they respond like “Oh yah, they asked a few questions to make sure they are picking up the right bunch of palm leaves”. I am surprised that an important element of the whole process goes unnoticed by the people who visit the Nadi center. It is what I call “Unconscious exaggeration”. When you believe in some thing, you only remember and analyse the things that support your belief. It is a classic case of believers in astrology- they filter information to support their faith and leave out other details which provide clue for an objective analysis. I don’t think the believers are doing it on purpose. It is self deception.

Let us assume for the sake of argument that the whole Nadi Astrology was true and that the great Rishis in the past predicted the life story of fellow citizens. How many people’s life they predicted? No one knows.

Assume they predicted the life of say 100,000 people in India (it is less than 0.01% of the total population of India). Going by the data provided by the Nadi Astrologer, for each person they have around 72 pages worth of data. For a sample size of 1 Lakh people, you should have approximately 7.2million page worth of information. If the Great Rishis predicted some thing like this 1000 years back they should have predicted for more than 100,000 people (because you have to consider all the people who lived in India in the last 1000 years). So we are talking about billions and billions of pages worth of data. Even if you assume that the Nadi astrologer has a secret bunker where he is holding billions of palm leaves, there is one more problem. The palm leaves have limited life and you would have to transfer the information to a new set of leaves periodically to keep the information alive. This would require a massive workforce of full time palm leaf writers in industrial scale.
In a nut shell- Nadi Astrology - what a load of bull shit.
Post Script:
Some bleiver will tell me that they had a different experience. May be they were never questioned for one hour, may be they got the palm leaf stright away. May be every thing the Nadi Astrologer predicted came true.
Would that mean I went to a fraud and that is not the fault of Nadi Astrlogy? No, it that just means that the guy used a different technique! and you have not carried out an objective anlysis of his prediciton.


Here is a good clip form Sun TV. Exposing the Nadi leaves as fake.  They are not 1000 years old, they are made locally with some gibberish!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mrup498kbQ

19 comments:

Vijay said...

nice and informative article. Most of the times, the person eager to know his future is also eager to give his personal details although this happens unintentionally.

I only feel sorry for all those self-proclaimed gurus who don't want to open up and tell their secrets to the world. Atleast in that way they can garner some pride and respect.

Vasan said...

Tamil alphabets evolved dramatically over time, with the earliest available writings in Tamil Brahmi script. Only recently was the Tamil Brahmi script cracked by I. Mahadevan, one of the top epigraphists in the world.

I have seen books depicting on how each alphabet evolved over the centuries, and if you go back a few centuries, they are virtually unreadable to modern Tamil people. Note that most of us can understand most of thirukkuraL (for instance) eventhough it was written two millennia ago, but reading old Tamil writing requires theoretical and practical training.

So it is possible that these guys have several hundreds of manuscripts written in one of the older scripts, which he keeps showing to you as evidence. Unless you can read what it says, there is no way of knowing! It may well say (in old Tamil script)... "Today I had little sleep because the street doggie kept on barking. Gopal came to hand over 3 gunny bags of rice..."

Shashikant Oak said...

Dear Anti guru Swami
Read your exposing of Naadi riddle. It is the same old explanation given by many rationalists,in the past right from Dr A kavoor and Tiru.B Premanand. Supposed to be the towers of Rationalists at least in Indian subcontinent. However they have not gone more deep except conjuring the assumptions- this or that must have been the case or so. Who is preventing them and to you to go full flung in to the mystery of the naadi Palm leaves? How do you surmise with out searching that Marvin Attapatu's or for that matter the long and intricate names must not be there? Please read book " Naadi Predictions A Mind Boggling Miracle". In which there is a chapter on the "Hoax of Naadi by Dr Jayant Narlikar and other rationalist group active in Maharashtra. You may contact me on shashioak@gmail.com for more details.

Swamy Kujarananda said...

Shashikant,
Out of interest, are you suggesting that the Nadi astrology exist for Sri Lankan names too? Can you tell me if I can get a Nadi astrology for a Spaniard or ethiopean? I did not realize the great saints predicted life of every one around the globe. I thought their mandate was to predict stuff for Indians.
If you want to send me the book free of cost, I don't mind reading it. I cannot spend any more money on this.
It is not my duty to disprove this. If you guys are hell bend on believing this , you have to prove that it works!

Anonymous said...

I can't totally agree with you here. You mention your experience with just one reader. I suggest you try some of the more famous readers and also the different types of nadis like agasthya, bhgru etc; even though it might cost you some money. Try giving out as little info as possible. And don't settle for any spiritual name either!

Praveen said...

I checked out a nadi jothidar at #R9C
Water Tank Road, MMDA Colony
Arumbakkam
Chennai -600106
044-23631793
Initially he said that I need to answer only yes or no. After a series of question he guessed if my name starts with P. After some time he started guessing all names which starts with P ..
After which he found out my name and my dad in a great struggle. I felt like laughing.

He couldnt guess my mom name. SO I left . saved my Rs250/-

ShashiKanth,
If you say its true you tell me person let me check with him and will tell you.

allbounds.impex@gmail.com

Anonymous said...

Gotta love it man! Nadi crap

Anonymous said...

these naadi people are making a fool out of innocent folks,they are simply psychologists and not messengers of some great rishis.

Kumar S said...

Nadi readers are not fooling. They are expert in permutations and combination plus strong memory. They know fingerprint lines - age (approx), possible profession, possible Rasi & health.
On basis of Rasi they start ma mi mu me etc.and bring alphabets which lead to name.
They go step by step as per procedure of Nadi grantha and finally arrive at birth date etc.
Greatest is chart and interpretation which no vedic system and or westernor Gemini system can give so perfectly.
I carried our research and found Nadi based readings. I gave similar readings to more than 2K and results have been much to their full satisfaction.
I strongly believe Nadi system is ultimate in giving 95% accuracy.
Sushilkumar
Hyderabad, India

DEEPAK PALAN said...

How can any person or a group of persons, record the life events of each and every person. Assuming thousands of babies are born every second, to record and update the events and key karma of each and every person, it is really amazing. and to suggest that these were already recorded thousands of years back not only for each and every person but for each of their several lives, ... what can one say. absurd or one bordering on the insane.

Anonymous said...

Hi swamy Kujarananda

I am G.chenna keshavulu
I have seen your response to my comment on "nadi jothidam exact science" on nirmukta.com. Thank you.

Let me reply to some of the comments made by anonymous people

There is nothing wrong in having a spiritual name,
especially when one is exposing the fraud, making people aware of true nature of fraudulent practices. You are the true guru. so you have a fitting name.

All nadi jothidam astrologers are similar. System itself is fraudulent.
I have seen famous and not so famous nadi astrologers.
More famous nadi jothidam readers have better abilities in covering no of attempts to get information. they don't hurry and don't make more attempts on any single point in sequence. they stagger and space the questions.
Famous astrologers are more skilled in cold reading.

Your footwear, clothes, mobile phone, vehicle in which you arrived at the site, your body language ( how you carry your hands, how you walk), your teeth
all these give cues on your financial status, social status.

famous nadi astrologers use that to their advantage.

Many times people get carried away in emotions and pass on lot of information to the astrologer. It is hard to convince many people (even well educated engineers) even though fact is obvious. They blindly believe.
People with vested interest ( astrologers, palmists etc and political parties which use religion) will always support this pseudosciences. probably shashi kant oak is one of them.

Now days many TV serials are popularizing astrology.
One novel by suryadevara rammohan rao in telugu language has given lot of publicity to nadi jothidam in Andhra pradesh state. ( india)

Anonymous said...

Mr. Shashikant oak i have seen your book available at
http://www.hinduonline.co/DigitalLibrary/SmallBooks/AgastyaNadiSamhitaEng.pdf

" diaries of the gullible" would be more apt name for your book. You must be aware that you have given all the details to the nadi astrologer during search process. He has not predicted anything. Sages have not recorded anything.

Many people are not ready to open their eyes and understand the fraud.

G.chenna keshavulu

Anonymous said...

Mr. Shashikant oak i have seen your book available at
http://www.hinduonline.co/DigitalLibrary/SmallBooks/AgastyaNadiSamhitaEng.pdf

" diaries of the gullible" would be more apt name for your book. You must be aware that you have given all the details to the nadi astrologer during search process. He has not predicted anything. Sages have not recorded anything.

Many people are not ready to open their eyes and understand the fraud.

G.chenna keshavulu

Anonymous said...

Thank you so much for going there and finding this out for all us rationalists. Some of my family members believe this too and I'm glad I don't have to go there to disprove it, thanks to your post :)

Anonymous said...

I really appreciate your commitment Mr. Shashikant oak. Please tell me what are you smoking! I would really love to get some of that.

Shashikant Oak said...

1."Please tell me what are you smoking! I would really love to get some of that."
...
2. " diaries of the gullible" would be more apt name for your book. You must be aware that you have given all the details to the nadi astrologer during search process. He has not predicted anything."
...
1. Dear Anonymous, You are so secretive that you do not divulge your identity here. By making sarcastic remarks, shows the courage of conviction. .
...
2. Thanks G.chenna keshavulu, at least you have read the book.Please quote from where did you find that I gave all information to Nadi reader? In fact I was cautious not to provide any info from the beginning,as I was very skeptic about the whole system!
You remark that 'He(reader)has not predicted anything' is a fiction of your own! Reading of chapter 9 and actual happenings as predicted line by line are narrated in details, yet you say nothing was predicted! Thanks for this false statement! So other readers of my book at least will decide who is truth seeker and who is not!

...

Special note for
If you want to send me the book free of cost, I don't mind reading it. I cannot spend any more money on this.
It is not my duty to disprove this. If you guys are hell bend on believing this , you have to prove that it works!

Dear Anti Guru swamy Kujarananda,
You are out to disprove Naadi is bunkum and on top of this you are saying, "it is not my duty to Disprove"! Naadi is a documentary proof. So the Maharishis have nothing to prove. But rationalists have taken upon themselves that they are to disprove it at any cost! That you don't want to buy my book is OK with me, But to prove that I am wrong, it is all the more important to read it. Not that you are short of funds, But lack of conviction about the truth.

Swamy Kujarananda said...

Hi Sashikant,
People like you are the ones scamming people by collecting money by selling this nonsense. It is your responsibility to prove. If a company want to sell a drug it is upto them to provide evidence , you are asking the consumer to pay for testing! Also in science if someone claims there is a cow selling tea in mars, they don't expect scientist to send a probe to disprove!
The logical fallacies of the Nadi astrology is very clear and you have not addressed anything.
You guys are minting money by scamming people, I hope you and the astrologers sleep well after scamming innocent people.

googleman said...

How much Shashikant you are getting as a commission from the scammers? I hear the Nadi astrologers make a lot of money selling junk? The whole Nadi leaf as it turns out is a cottage industry product not something the Yogis produced long back

Anonymous said...

Hmmmm... Karma has its own ways, if at all you believe it exists :-)... I hope people seek the truth and decide for themselves. Anyways, Faith was never an easy subject when u r coming from a communist/atheist background. But, I guess there is an intelligent design with the designer scripting life's algorithm... Rationalists and theists are just absolutist trying run over each other. I hope contemplation and self inquiry can lead to truth.. Peace!

About Me

I am an Engineer by profession. Spritual and Anit-guru advice is my part time job!